Forgivness

[sarah2]

I desperatley want to forgive some of my family members, especially my father, my therapist tells me I cannot move on untill I have and I got the news today that my father is in hospital, essentially on his death bed.
Firstly, do I go visit him?
I'm terrified to, I havn't seen him since I stole money from him and he chased me out the window of his apartment (another story) but I want to see him before he finally pops it. It may also freak me out and lead me to using again, or lead to other shit (like, flashbacks have been getting better - chances are they'll get worse again) am I strong enough to see him? I want to say I am, but, I dunno.
And practically, how safe is it in hospital? He's not a nice guy and I don't want to get hurt again, physically or mentally.
But, will it hurt more not to see him before he dies?
Can I just leave it behind?
Does he deserve to see his daughter before he dies?
How do you go about forgiving someone who did you some serious wrong?
I want to, but I can't bring myself to.
Also, should I be feeling anything?
Because when I first heard, I was actually amazingly relieved, I kind of, don't want him to be alive anymore, does that make me a horrible person?
I feel like this is finally his comupance, and if he's getting it, do I need to be angry anymore? If I don't, then why am I still so angry?
I dunno, I just need some advice, do I see him?
Do I forgive him? If so, how?

[Almost-Insane]

it might be that if you dont go to see him youll spend a good portion of your life looking back and wishing you could have said something before the chance was gone.

i think you might should go see him, but keep your head about it - stay calm. it might be scary but most forms of confrontation usually are and being his death bed makes it even worse. but if you really want to get passed whatever issues you have then yeah, speaking to him would be best, if you ignore it now then it will probably reccurr more than if you spoke to him.

[sarah2]

You're probly right. I'm just fucking scared. Firstly of seeing my father, like, dying and secondly because I hate him so much and seeing him may make me realise I can never forgive him, I can't take him, he just isn't good for me. I can't take his lies and the insencerity of his apologies.
But I want closeure, you're right, if I don't see him, I'll look back on this last chance to make my peace with him and regret not doing it. I don't really believe in heaven and hell, but this is his punishment and I hope that whatever comes next for him, well, it makes him realise that he was the worst kind of father.
I want to say so much to him, but whenever I see him I'm just afraid, I'm just angry and terrified and upset, it never comes out.
I want him to know what he's done to me and how wrong it all was and how much he hurt me, but how can I?
Part of me dosn't want to have to say those things to someone who is about to die.

[nelvannya]

I completely agree with your therapist on the forgiveness thing. You can not move forward until you shed your past hurts, and to completely do that you need to forgive them. However I do not believe that you have to find him and tell him that you forgive him, you can make a conscience desion that you have forgiven him.
I personally believe that you will be able to verbally forgive him when as silly as this might sound, fate runs you into him.
I have forgiven Jay. I have not seen Jay, but I know that I have forgiven him and all those things that I want to tell him to say to him are washed away by my true forgiveness.
I think that you have to truely believe that you forgive him, I think when that forgiveness is there you will not NEED to tell him all those things, because it no longer hurts you. You want to tell him all of those things that he did, you want him to know that he was a horrid father because you either want him to feel the way you do, or find some light and change, but you want to impact him so that you feel better.
Forgiveness is about letting them get away with it, as push over as that sounds, forgiveness is telling your self that some one wronged you, but you can move forward. Forgiveness is about your state of mind, with out the person you are forgiving.
But if Fate or God or Life runs you into him and you feel capable of saying "I forgive you" then do it.
I personally believe you are not at the forgiveness stage, I think you are still bitter and angry and pissed off...I think you should work thru that in order to get to forgiveness. If you rush forgiveness you will never understand the true power of forgiveness over you life.

[sarah2]

I agree with you, that it needs to be a natural thing that will come when I'm ready to forgive him.
But he needs to realise what he's done and I don't want him to die and to leave me with all this bitterness.
I agree that it should happen like, when fate runs me into him, but what if I don't get that chance? He is dying, no doubt about it and will not come out of hospital untill he dies, so my only chance of ever seeing my father again is to make the choice to see him.
I don't have the opportunity to 'run into him'.
That's why I feel so unsure. Because I'm not ready to forgive him, I'm not even really ready to see him. But, weirdly, I still care about my father and although I'm not upset about him dying, I still don't want him to die without understanding the wrong he did and being sorry for it.
And that's stupid because I'm not relgious or whatver, but I can't let him die without at least giving him a chance to 'repent', perhaps it's my vauge catholic background, but I feel it's my duty, everyone deserves a chance to say sorry don't they?
I don't think it's ever too late to apologise, but he always does and he never means it, he always just did it again. I want to make him understand, I need him to apologise and mean it. But what if he dosn't?
That dosn't mean I'm not angry or upset or afraid, but that, I care enough to not let him die alone.
How fucked up is that? Why do I care!? He's a bastard, and I hate him for what he's done, but I can't bring myself to hate him enough to let him die in agony alone, which really, is all he deserves.
I want him out of my life, but I can't let him die without seeing him at least one more time.

But you're right. I don't want to rush forgivness, I want to acheive it and I havn't yet, you're right, I havn't found the true power of forgivness, not once, I've never been able to forgive anyone and I've still got so much bitterness that I deseperatley want rid of.
But, then again, looking back, like, my boyfriend died before I could say everything I needed to, before I could say sorry and before he could apologise. He did nothing as bad as my father, but I still regret not doing and saying those things while he was alive because it's left me with so much shit that I can't leave behind.
I don't want to make the same mistake.
But...arg, see the problem!?

[Markme]

uhhmm
Well i do agree with what almost insane said that if you dont go and see him you may always look back on this moment for the rest of your life and most likely regret it...
if he is on his death bed, he wont be able to hurt you any more, just give him a goodbye and show him that your only doing this for yourself and not for him..

you have a strong sponsor after all she did put up with you through everything that went on, so i rekon she will help you once again if you need it.

[CJDude]

if i was in your position, id say go and see your father. if he is dieing then you should at least try and make your peace with each other, after all you might not get another chance, and it will give you some kind of closure.

as for are hospitals safe, well id say yes they are. their are always nurses about, and sometimes even dr's and ordalys as well, and if he is in a public room then you dont have to close the curtins round the bed and if he is in a privet room you dont have to close the door. If you are still feeling unsafe then you can inform who ever is on duty at the time and try and arrange to have some one be close by

[OzzieJess]

i believe that maybe you should go and say goodbye. for yourself. you need to get everything off your chest. (it may sound mean i know he's sick) but you need to tell him how much he hurt you.

It takes alot of courage to forgive someone. I have been wronged and hurt alot in my life and i have forgiven then all. you know why? they are only human people make mistakes. people fuck up. this doesn't mean i will ever speak to them again, it just means i don't hold what they did inside anymore.

I can't say it will make you feel better today or even this yr if you see him. but in the long run you will feel better.

Is there anyone who will go with you?

[sarah2]

I went to see him today. It was pretty weird.
I was there (the hospital) anyway to get my check ups (all going ok btw), and so I decided to bite the bullet and go and see him.
He was asleep when I got there, so I sat and talked to the nurses, turns out I've been his first visitor, and he's been in there at least 2 weeks (only just managed to mention he HAD a daughter!) which is pretty sad, even my mother hasn't been to see him.
And well, yeah, he's ill, really, really ill, all the years of constant drinking have finally taken toll on him and his liver and kidneys are amazingly fucked, and on top of that, well, guess what, he has AIDS.
Not HIV, AIDS. So, I mean, fucking hell! I figured, he's got his punishment for what he did but I couldn't help feeling guilty because it's my fault.
If I hadn't been such a fucking whore (literally) then he wouldn't be dying so very quickly. Or, perhaps, perhaps it was his fault? Perhaps it was him who infected me?
I don't actually want to believe that.
I try and block out the disgusting things he did to me and try and pretend they never happened, but how can I now? There's proof now.
Well, when I found that out, I freaked and left before he woke up.
I don't know what to think. And it scares me.
To see my father dying of what will one day strike me down in a very similar manner is absoultley terrfying. I'm doing well, avoiding opportunistic infections and all, virus count low, t cells not dropping so alarmingly anymore, I'm not at that level yet, not AIDS. Yet.
But seeing him made me realise, that, that is how I'm going to die.
And whether it's because of him, or because of the hundreds of other horrible disgusting men, what does it even matter?
And I mean, I thought I might have it in my heart, somewhere, deep down, to forgive him for abusing me in a way no father should ever inflict on their daughter. But now, how can you forgive the person who gave you HIV? Or, how can he forgive me?
And what if it WAS me? How fucking absolutley horrible is that?
How fucked up is this whole situation?
I just, can't fucking take this.

[Almost-Insane]

well i dont think you can be blamed for him gettin this infection, its not like he should have done anything to you in the first place so its his own fault - not yours. you did the right thing by going to see him so kudos for that just dont blame yourself for anything.

[sarah2]

But now I'm even more confused and angry and I didn't even talk to him.
I wish I'd never gone. I wish I didn't know.

[OzzieJess]

I'm not going to pretend that i understand how you are feeling. But I am going to say IT WILL NEVER BE YOUR FAULT. and I just want to give you a huge hug

When are you seeing your therapist next?

[sarah2]

Monday, I'll talk to her about it. She rarley gives me solutions, but rather makes me think about my own solutions. Which is amazingly irritating, but brilliant at the same time.
But how will I ever find a solution to this?
I want to find a solution before he dies, because or else this will play on my mind forever.
If he was the one who infected me, I just, what he did was horrible anyway, it was wrong and it wasn't what a father does, but if he knew, and he did that anyway. He must hate me so much. Why? How can someone hate you that much?

[OzzieJess]

maybe he didn't know? Which is no excuse for what he did. And i don't know if you will ever find one. Mainly cos there is no excuse that could make you feel better.

Some people just aint right in the head. They are messed up. And some people are so sick they should just be killed of.

I think, remember this is just what i think, I think you should go back and see him and be there when he is awake. so you can tell him what he did was wrong. so you can yell at him and tell him just what you think. get it all off your chest.

this will help in the long run. it will probably make you feel like shit for a few months. it will bring it all up again for a few months. but in the long run you will feel better.

[sarah2]

I guess you're right.
And perhaps he didn't know, he hasn't been getting treatment, so I guess he probly didn't know. My father is messed up, but part of me dosn't think he deserves to die.
I need to think like, methodically. I'll go see my therapist, see what she thinks. Then I have another thing at the hospital on Thursday (my weekly routine, it's nice) so I could go and see him then. My therapist will hopefully help me find a way of preparing for it.
I might write it down. I'm good at writing things down, I'm shit at saying things aloud, it never comes out right, and especially with my father, I always end up saying, 'no, it's my fault' and 'it's alright', because the way he apologises and phrases it, just makes me feel like he's still this nice guy, like it really IS my fault. I don't want to let him make me feel like that again. He's so minipulative.
It's just, he never used to be like this. He worked a lot when I was younger, but when I did see him, well, that's the bits of my childhood that I really cherish, he'd come back from buisness trips with presents and exciting stories and he'd play with me and my sister, he taught me to swim and when he bought me my first pony he taught me how to ride and look after it. I guess he spoilt us a lot. But then it all just changed.
My parents became so unhappy, and it was because of me. My mother had always been resentful and not very maternal, but my father changed so quickly once I started fucking everything up and making life difficult. So perhaps it was my fault.
He's not even my biological father, which he loves to remind me, he tells me how my mother has abandoned me, and he's everything, and it proves that he must love me lots and lots because we're not even technically related! And I fucking fall for it every time.
It's me, it's because I'm so stupid, I'm so desperate to make it better.