England in trouble

[Cleverley]

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this is incredible,

im am nearly at a loss for words, nearly.

i cannot believe that we have to argue about whether people should allow their religion to excuse them from british law.

this goes past the normal "if they dont like it they can leave!" arguments you hear on radio one.

this is beginning to sound like "if you think your muslim wife is adulterous, you can decapitate her, then be let off due to the fact you're under sharia law"

i remember i went to an islamic wedding once whilst as a police officer, and i was attedning due to an assault. i was asked to leave or present myself with a muslim officer as "i did not understand the reasons behind the assault."

now my job was to enforce the law, not to decide who was above it and to whom the rules did not apply to.

for the first time i think i would actually take a days pay and go protest somewhere about this.

your thoughts ladies and gents?

[Markme]

Im not meaning to offend any one,
but i do not think religions really should control peopls lives.
Live how you want, but live with common sence.

I think if you break a law, you should be punished for it.
Laws are mostly made up of common sence.
Stealing is bad, it leaves others feeling upset and more.
Murder is bad, kills people and a life always deserves to be lived.
Crime, it affects people.

No one should be excused because they believe differently.

[My Dreams killed me]

hmmm...very interesting topic, I'll reserach it more before I give an opinoun

[sarah2]

This is completly exaggerated.
I've met the Arch Bishop and he's not an idiot. He is not reffering to laws like decapitation or stoning...etc, he's reffering to respect for religious laws AS WELL AS our countries laws. Ie, Jewish/Muslim marriages, food laws...etc "He said adopting parts of Islamic Sharia law could help social cohesion. For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court."

It's about understanding that we are now a mulit-racial and religious society and bringing not only British, Christian values into account, but also having enough respect for others laws that we can make some comprimise.

'Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "We're looking at a very small aspect of Sharia for Muslim families when they choose to be governed with regards to their marriage, divorce, inheritance, custody of children and so forth.

"Let's debate this issue. It is very complex. It is not as straight forward as saying that we will have a system here." '

Yes, that sounds like decaptitation for infidelity does it?

Read the article fully before making ridiculas claims people!

[Cleverley]

first of all, this is not about accepting other peoples cultures. its about the rule of law.

laws are a representation of what is best for britain, not christians, not muslims, not jews.

if i decided to go and live in saudi arabia, and demanded the 25th of december off work, i think theyd laugh at me.

the point to all this sarah is that if we allow people to enter the country, refuse to adopt our customs, language and negate our rule of law then what benefit does that give to britain? if you're debating social cohesion, why should it be the responsibility of the state to change for those who enter it for the style of living.

there are reasons why we have laws for marriage, divorce, inheritance, finances etc.

and they are paid for by taxation.

now im not being funny, but where do you think the funding for sharia courts will come from? that's right, our taxes.

as for your notion that britain is multi cultural. it isnt.

less than 10% of britain is non white or part of a faith that is not christianity.

more than 25% of the population of prisons is non white. so for the sake of immigration policy, we have british people who deserve to go to prison and are given a suspended sentences.

the hard honest truth is, britain has an open door policy to allow anyone into the country even if they are promoting anti british fundamentalism (Abu Hamza has been preaching for years publicly, and only now in 2008 have we sent him out)

this is not racism or xenophobia, i have travelled all my life and have always attempted to speak the native language, eat the food and respect the laws of the countries i have visited. What i cannot conceive of is me worked and losing 30% of my paycheck to tax which goes to building a court for sharia law which excuses immigrants of any british law they break.

i too have met the archbishop (canterbury christ church alumni) and im not calling him an idiot, he should think before he speaks.

[PILLZ-E]

im all for freedom of religion and what not
but allowing special treatment for anyone let along for sharia law, isnt a good thing
everyone's equal under the law, no ifs ands or buts

read a fiction story about a dutch civil war, one of the first things that happend in it the story, was that sharia law was given autonomy from the law, then things just get worse from there.
it was an interesting read.

*shruggz*

[Markme]

Originally Posted by PILLZ-E
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im all for freedom of religion and what not
but allowing special treatment for anyone let along for sharia law, isnt a good thing
everyone's equal under the law, no ifs ands or buts

I 100% agree with you, every one should be treated equally, no matter what race or what their beliefs are.

[Tommeh!!!]

rather than going off on one, im going to sum up what i think.

Fuck this country and the fucksticks that run it.

[Almost-Insane]

i dont mean offense by this but its just my opinion: i believe that without religion there would be more peace in the world, religion has been the cause for so many wars etc, its like there sayin 'they believe something different from us so lets kill them' yes its good to have faith bit as proven by the radicals its also a hazard. britain and the rest of the world would probs benifit without religion. britain needs to step up the security and be more weary of who they let in.

[sarah2]

The problem with being too wary is just the problem you are talking about with relgious war, then it's oh we don't want you. This then leads to resentment. Just because I was born here, who says it's my right to not let people who need help come here. I can't stand all this immagration stuff and the ridiculasness of the Daily Mail-esque, They're stealing out jobs...kick them all out..England for us...blah blah blah. Because as a matter of fact, we benifit from having immagrents, 40% of NHS workers are immagrents (call me on that one, I'm not sure how up to date that is) so effectivley, our health service wouldn't be able to run without them, who would do all the jobs we don't want? It's about respect and helping other people, there are some people who come over here because the desperatly need a safe place to live and if they are allowed in then they get welcomed with all sorts of shit from the British public, I find it really embarressing.
And also, British security, like, the safety of the public and the country I think has less to do with immegrants that we think. I mean, July bombings, our major terrorist attack since the IRA, was done (so we're lead to beleive) by British people. It's not about where people come from it's about treating people with some respect, both ways. Why can't we as a nation seem to respect the people who are coming to live here, respect their traditions and religions, we're so closed minded that we think our way is the only way.

And being non white makes you not British? We've had black people living here for centuaries, is this not their home too? they're paying taxes, for prisons, so if it comes their time for use one, well, they payed for it, so why should priority go to white British?


I'm not saying immagrents don't have to attempt to learn about British ways and speak English, but I'm also saying that perhaps we can learn a thing or two from their ways also? You think nothing is wrong with the system we have now? Now, we both know no one is talking about drastic changes like decapitiation, but this is about respect for customs and discussing wether we can improve our attitudes towards immegrants, and perhaps is we can learn a thing or two from them.
We do not have peace in England, I mean, Islam means peace, perhaps we can leanr something from that?
And you're right on one thing, I cannot speak for the tax payer, because I don't pay tax. But, I would like to think if I were, then my taxes would be going to something good. And in my view, helping people, many of which have fled horrible pasts to seek safety and financial security in England, I'd like to think they could be accepted and still keep some of their own tradition and that we could have the respect to allow that. It's hard enough moving from country to country, learning a new lanuage, finding a job, let alone being told to fuck off by their community, and perhaps keeping some marriage laws...etc, may make them feel more at home, show them we have respect for their laws too.

[Tommeh!!!]

yeah i agree with pretty much everything youve said, i see the benefits to them coming to our country as i learnt alot about this in sociology, however, what i really really dont like is how the law is bent for them because our gov is so scared of not being PC.

You mention us respecting their laws, and i like the idea, but think of how much you hear in the news of someone upholding a rule in a school a workplace, community whatever thats been in effect for everyone for christ knows how long and suddenly its plastered all over the news that such and such is a racist and that a racial discrimintation case is being investigated, and communities are in an uproar...and to be honest that really pisses me off. We cannot be expected to bend to their will, bow down and respect them when alot clearly dont have respect for our laws and British life. If we keep changing for other countries we are gonna just destroy what little is left of British culture and become a very confused country.

I think its very cheeky for people to move to another country and expect that everything be changed to more like their country. Say a load of Brits moved to an Arabic country, and just waltzed around getting shitfaced, when they are all arrested and thrown in prison, do you reckon there would be an uproar? and people would think it was unfair cause, in England, people do that and they were english, so they should be allowed?

Its harsh, but i think if you come to this country, regardless of why, you should accept the country for what it is if you go there and you shouldnt expect to do what you like, as the Australian gov said, if you dont like the laws, this place isnt for you, go somewhere else. There is immigration everywhere, but england is pretty much the only one pussyfooting around everything. I think we just need a gov that is run by people who have some backbone rather than the bunch of pushover twats in power currently.

[Cleverley]

1. i think you've missed my argument entirely, im not talking about respect for other cultures, im talking about the decency an individual has for adopting the customs of a country they benefit from.

2. the NHS/Police/Fire service employs a wide range of immigrants on the basis that we have to seem like a multicultural service. What this actually means is that if you are an immigrant, your exam requirement score is lowered. now im not being funny, but ive served with immigrants in the police who couldnt speak english and it might seem like equality to you, but i was scared when i got into a fight on the job and my colleagues couldnt understand what i was saying.

3. you mentioned the 7/7 bombings, who do you think preached extremism to the british born muslims? thats right.

im not saying we shouldnt allow immigration to happen in britain. what i am suggesting is that we adopt a similar stance that australia and america do.

as of now england has lost its cultural impact, now all britain is known for is red buses, the queen and football hooligans...and this isnt making it any better.